How to Handle Holiday Grief: Advice from a Grief Therapist (112)

The holiday season can be a joyful time, but it can also bring challenges, especially for those grieving the loss of a loved one. In this episode, we are joined by grief therapist Litsa Williams to explore practical and meaningful ways to navigate grief during the holidays. Whether you’re struggling to uphold traditions, finding ways to talk to your children during hard moments, or just trying to make it through the “most wonderful time of the year,” this episode offers heartfelt support, actionable tips, and all the things surrounding grief during the holiday season.

You’ll Learn:

• Why the holidays can feel heavier after a loss and how to acknowledge and honor those feelings.
• How to talk to kids about grief and the holidays 
• How to break free from the cookie-cutter holiday template: Redefining traditions and making space for what matters.
• Identifying your “why” for the season to align your values with how you approach the holidays.
• Preparing for tough conversations and communicating your needs to family and friends.
• Three essential pillars to help you move through grief during the holidays.

About Our Guest:
Litsa Williams is a grief therapist and co-founder of the online grief community What’s Your Grief.  Litsa met Eleanor, What's Your Grief's co-founder while supporting families who had lost loved ones to unexpected deaths in Baltimore, MD. Drawing on their personal and professional experience with grief, WYG was built as a resource offering concrete, practical, creative, down-to-earth, and relatable support, founded on the values of psychoeducation and creative coping. She has been interviewed as a grief expert for the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, NPR, and New York Times. She is co-author of the book What's Your Grief: Lists to Help You Through Any Loss.

Episodes Referenced:
Experiencing Grief: Episode 43

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Transcript

00:00:06:04 - 00:00:32:04
Unknown
The holiday season is here. It is the fullest time of the year and all the ways. And today we are going to talk about how to handle one of the hardest parts of the holidays grief with grief therapist Litsa Williams. So glad to get your email wanting to talk about this subject of, you know, grief at the holidays, because I think it's just so important.

00:00:32:04 - 00:00:59:21
Unknown
So I'm really glad to be back. Welcome to how the wise one grows where we get curious and creative as we explore the things that help us grow together. I'm Holly, your host, a creative at heart, a yoga and mindfulness educator, and the fellow human and friend exploring how we grow and can live our most authentic lives.

00:00:59:23 - 00:01:29:14
Unknown
I know it's weird, but one of my favorite things to talk about is grief. Litsa Williams, co-founder of What's Your Grief? First opened up my perspective on grief a couple of years ago, when we spoke on this podcast in episode 43 about understanding grief. And with the holiday season upon us, I knew that I needed to get lots of back to talk to us on the podcast about how we can deal with grief during the holidays.

00:01:29:20 - 00:02:03:16
Unknown
Litsa is a grief therapist and co-founder of the online community What's Your Grief? She's been interviewed as a grief expert for The Washington Post. Wall Street Journal, NPR, and The New York Times, and she's here with us today. In this episode, we talk about why grief is so challenging during the holidays. How to go against the cookie cutter holiday template and honor what feels right for you, and how to prep yourself for the holidays and communicate with others what you need during this time of year after loss.

00:02:03:18 - 00:02:37:14
Unknown
And we also talk about three pillars that you can turn to to help you move through grief during the holiday season. I also want to note that this episode was recorded with Lisa months before the US election, and I just want to name that. I think many of us, including myself, are experiencing a kind of post-election grief. And while this episode doesn't talk specifically about that, I think there are nuggets in this episode and conversation that can be helpful.

00:02:37:16 - 00:03:09:02
Unknown
Before we dive in to today's conversation and into the holiday season, let's take a moment to land here together with a deep breath. So notice where your body makes contact with the earth. Let your spine lengthen and your shoulders soft and down the back. And take a big breath in. Fill your chest. Fill your belly with air. And exhale open your mouth.

00:03:09:08 - 00:03:24:06
Unknown
Let it all out. All right, buckle up. This episode is your safety belt going into the holiday season.

00:03:24:07 - 00:03:48:09
Unknown
When people ask me like, what's my favorite podcast episode? I have a very hard time answering. But yours always comes up as, like, one of the most transformed ones for me, because grief is this thing that all of us experience. And we don't often communicate, around it in daily life, but it's here all of the time.

00:03:48:11 - 00:04:15:18
Unknown
So having that episode just, I think, provides such a strong foundation for all of us to deal with this very real part of life that doesn't get enough attention. Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I completely agree. I, I think all the time about, you know, Ken Doke, always says change equals loss equals grief. And like, life is just change.

00:04:15:20 - 00:04:42:00
Unknown
Like, we're always changing and evolving and even positive change in life can bring loss. And then of course, just all of the other types of losses. And so it is it's everywhere. I think once you have experienced a significant loss and you start looking at the world through this lens of grief, it can be staggering how it it is.

00:04:42:00 - 00:05:15:02
Unknown
It's just everywhere. And yet there isn't. I mean, there is cultural conversation about it more than probably when I first got into this work, but certainly not as much as I think we could all benefit from. Yeah, and I really love that framing of like, relating loss and change, as grief, because something we talked about in that episode 43 was how you can experience loss and grief for things that aren't is in human life.

00:05:15:02 - 00:05:43:19
Unknown
You know, that isn't it can be loss of like a life you thought you were going to have, or even, you know, when I was getting married, I had, marriage. And like the marriage ceremony described as almost like a funeral of your, like, made in life into this, like next chapter you're stepping into. And it's something that does come up in so, so many chapters, including, you know, obviously the ones of of loss of loved ones.

00:05:43:21 - 00:06:08:11
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And I think being able to just name it is such an important part of validating and normalizing what we're feeling when it's there. So I just even that I think is so important and helpful for this conversation, like seeing all the places that we may be feeling it. Yeah. So this is something I've been sitting with a lot lately.

00:06:08:11 - 00:06:37:12
Unknown
I feel like. I don't know if it's that people intuitively know it, but it's just kind of just like, understood on some level that the holidays make grief feel extra hard. Like, I think when we're growing up, we see holidays as this beautiful, magical, joyful all the time, time of year. And as we get older, it becomes more complicated.

00:06:37:14 - 00:07:04:06
Unknown
And especially when we've lost a loved one, it can be really hard that that holiday season can just be really intense sometimes, or maybe all the time. But I was wondering, like, why? Why are the holidays so hard when you're grieving? Yeah, I think the way you introduced that, it really highlights some of the reasons that it is so hard.

00:07:04:06 - 00:07:40:03
Unknown
I mean, I think part of it is that going all the way back to childhood, we have a really specific memories of the holidays. Like if I asked you where you were on September 18th last year, unless that's a really meaningful day to you, like you probably have no idea. But if I ask you where you were on Thanksgiving last year, or even many of the Thanksgivings in your childhood, you'd possibly be able to identify that if I ask about you, it was certain other significant holidays.

00:07:40:04 - 00:08:13:17
Unknown
It just is something that we have these clear memories of where we often are. Who is there, what it's supposed to be like. And some of those ideas develop from our childhood and early memories of holidays and summer. Obviously, from what we see in the media and all the narratives around what we're supposed to feel, especially at the winter holidays, right, of, you know, that we're supposed to have this idea of family and community.

00:08:13:17 - 00:08:51:07
Unknown
And so when any of that gets disrupted and we're so acutely aware of the absence, like we're we feel it so dramatically and oftentimes it's not just that there's a person who's missing. It's that along with that, traditions have had to change their roles. People fill our different where we go. It may be that as the years pass, we're more and more aware of how many different people we've lost who are no longer at that holiday table or part of the day.

00:08:51:10 - 00:09:22:14
Unknown
So I think that that acute awareness of change at the holidays is one big piece of it. But the other is I think sometimes we feel outside. Like you said, the holiday season is supposed to be joyful and happy and full of sparkles and meals and, you know, all of these things. And it can feel like, oh wow, everyone out here is savoring the holiday season and enjoying it and together with family.

00:09:22:14 - 00:10:03:10
Unknown
And I'm sort of outside of that because I'm struggling or I'm really feeling a lot of pain this holiday season and just feeling disconnected instead of connected. So I think that is another piece, is that we almost feel like outsiders in the holiday season sometimes if grief feels really intense. I think that so much of what you said is so important here, because I think in general and overall society has this underlying tone of like grin and bear, it put on a happy face.

00:10:03:10 - 00:10:33:16
Unknown
You should be positive, you should focus on the good and only bring attention to that. And while there is a time and space for those things, when we deny and don't make space for like what we're really feeling the hard things as much as the good, we aren't, tapping into our fullness and the totality of our human experience.

00:10:33:18 - 00:11:03:22
Unknown
And just like you were saying, like when we when we don't tap into that, when there's a part of us that isn't getting attention and isn't getting voice, it kind of feels like that outsider ness, that otherness or like something is wrong because you like, quote unquote should be feeling this other way. And the holidays, all of the language, all of the music, all of the stuff around it really, really heightens that.

00:11:04:00 - 00:11:23:00
Unknown
And I think even beyond like, you know, even before you may have experienced loss, I feel like there's a lot of kids who grew up and are like, feeling really heavy during the holidays because their family dynamics aren't the way that they think it should be. Or different things happen on the holidays and everyone isn't always happy.

00:11:23:00 - 00:11:59:08
Unknown
And there is financial stress. There's emotional stress, there's all of this stuff going on that doesn't get space, doesn't get voice, and instead we're like, push down the rhetoric of like joy, joy. Most wonderful time of the year. Like stuffing cookies down your face. It's like stuffing joy down your face when you're like, actually, maybe I'm full. Or like, maybe I want like a carrot or something that, something that looks completely different than what this template, this cookie cutter template of what it's supposed to be looks and feels like.

00:11:59:10 - 00:12:31:04
Unknown
I absolutely think that is a huge part of it for people. And there can be, I think, an obligation people feel also to find that holiday cheer or holiday spirit because of other people, whether that's children in their life or other family members. It's like not wanting to be the Debbie Downer or feeling like it's my role and responsibility to make sure everybody else has a really nice holiday, and I can't let people see how much I'm struggling.

00:12:31:04 - 00:13:00:16
Unknown
And that's I think when we look at the idea of family, we want to, I think, be able to be authentic with family and share that. It's maybe messy and complicated and that we have so many mixed feelings about the holidays. But there can be a hesitation because it feels like, do other people have space for that, or are they going to have room for me to authentically share this range of experience I'm having about the holidays?

00:13:00:18 - 00:13:28:01
Unknown
Yeah, and it feels kind of like an A particularly intense and maybe like unwelcoming time to share what you're really feeling sometimes, because there is that connotation of like, we should be happy, and if you're not feeling happy, you're like, oh, it's the holidays. I shouldn't bring up this hard thing or have this big conversation right now. I should just be leaning into all these other things and we can deal with that later if we need to.

00:13:28:01 - 00:13:54:08
Unknown
But then that kind of like a cloud of doom is over your head, or that feeling is in the background. But you brought up children and, and I think back of, like, my childhood, I feel like typically the primary caretaker for me was my mom, like, just made things so magical and over-the-top as a kid and, like, put all this.

00:13:54:08 - 00:14:17:11
Unknown
I'm tons of pressure on herself. She would, like, stay up all night wrapping presents. Just. But she would make it decorated and just look so over the top and like the childlike joy and excitement that real sense of magic I felt was so incredible. And I remember when it really started to shift and I could start to wake up to the other elements that were there.

00:14:17:11 - 00:14:42:18
Unknown
And as you know, family dynamics change and deaths happen. And, you know, I've really shifted with how I feel at the holidays. But I often kind of go back and forth of like if we talked about it differently from the beginning, would that shift be so hard if we approached kids with like, here is magic, and also here is reality side by side, one and one, both can exist.

00:14:42:20 - 00:15:16:09
Unknown
What might that be like? Like what do you think about the way we communicate with kids around the holidays? Yeah, I think that you're exactly right. I think that there is this real, not for all kids, but for some kids. This real, singular idea about this perfect, magical holiday that sometimes adults worked very hard to try to always maintain the illusion that there was nothing difficult or nothing complex.

00:15:16:09 - 00:16:00:17
Unknown
And I think we carry that the messages about that into adulthood, and it creates pressure on us to keep trying to replicate that. When I do think that that in a lot of ways there may be a middle ground, being able to have space for things more authentically, even with kids, of being able to label some of the things that are hard and that are complicated and that that doesn't have to take away from appreciating the wonderful things and the things that really are beautiful and magical and that we feel grateful for.

00:16:00:19 - 00:16:36:07
Unknown
And also being able to acknowledge that there may be things that we are feeling, a lot of other feelings about. And because the reality is, like for reasons not related to grief, plenty of people, plenty of kids are disappointed when they don't have the gifts that they wanted on Christmas morning because of financial reasons. And when, you know, we're not able to see everyone we wanted to because of family conflict and all of the things that sometimes come up.

00:16:36:07 - 00:17:04:01
Unknown
And so I think that having a more realistic idea about that as a child can lift some of the pressure that we then carry into adulthood to feel like that's the ideal is this kind of perfectly magical day that always runs seamlessly this season, where everything is, perfect, and instead being able to say like, oh no, it's all it's life.

00:17:04:01 - 00:17:39:06
Unknown
It's always complicated. Yeah, it's always full. And I feel like as adults we need to kind of learn how to re parent ourselves and unlearn that, that stuff that was you know, just so like put in on us as children you know for good intentions. But the more that we can get okay with the fullness of what we're feeling with the holiday, the better we can communicate it to kids in a way that's like, okay, you know, like, okay, like we're feeling this happy thing and like.

00:17:39:07 - 00:18:03:07
Unknown
Right now, like I'm feeling kind of low. So I'm just going to make some space from that for that. And I'm going to go on a walk. If there's anything that you're feeling low about you can like join me on that or you know we can, but we have to be okay with it within ourselves first rather than kind of then further projecting like frustrations and, falsehoods on them.

00:18:03:09 - 00:18:42:22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And I think another way we can do that, that actually serves us really well in grief and in just with the reality that life is always changing is really grounding what the values are behind the holidays. And like, what is it that we as a family value about this day are about this time of year and knowing when we know sort of what our why is, the what and the how can change.

00:18:42:22 - 00:19:04:16
Unknown
Like it's not necessarily always going to look exactly the same because who's who's there and how we celebrate and what tradition looks like there is going to be things that ebb and flow.

00:19:04:18 - 00:19:25:22
Unknown
One of the most fun gifts I've given myself this holiday season is a subscription to newly. Newly is an online clothing subscription service, where you get to pick six items of clothing a month. They're shipped to you, they're packed sustainably, you get to wear them, get tons of compliments, and look cute all month long, and then send them back.

00:19:26:00 - 00:19:45:00
Unknown
It is so fun and I feel like it's like having a personal shopper curate your clothing, because all of the clothes on the site are so cute. And also, once you sign up for a subscription, you get access to their thrifted section where you get clothes that have been pre worn and used and are now ready for sale for super cheap.

00:19:45:03 - 00:20:10:11
Unknown
I am obsessed with it and I started it because a friend gave me their discount code. And I'm going to share a discount code with you today so you can get $30 off your first newly subscription by clicking the link in the show notes. I'm having so much fun with it this holiday season, and I want you to look really cute and feel fun to.

00:20:10:13 - 00:20:35:16
Unknown
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00:20:35:16 - 00:21:00:10
Unknown
So take a moment, pause, rate, review and share this podcast. You can also really support this podcast and connect with listeners by following at How the Wise one grows and following me at Hollys Asia on social media, particularly on Instagram. This is where we continue the conversations we have on the podcast. And I also put a lot of calls for listener submissions.

00:21:00:10 - 00:21:21:05
Unknown
So if you want to be on the podcast, be sure to follow us on Instagram. Another incredible thing you can do to support the podcast is to join the Dream Team and make my podcast dreams come true. You can join the Dream Team for as little as $3 a month, and this supports the operating costs and all the love, labor.

00:21:21:05 - 00:21:46:20
Unknown
And yes, sometimes tears that go into producing these episodes. There's a link in the show notes to join there as well. I'm also really excited to share that I have a few spaces available for one on one mentorship and coaching. During these sessions, we work together using the modalities of mindfulness, movement, and creative practices to support your mental, physical, and creative well-being and growth.

00:21:46:22 - 00:22:06:22
Unknown
This is one of my favorite things that I get to do, and I would be absolutely honored to work with you. And if you want a little more holly in your life, but mentorship or coaching doesn't feel like the right fit, I also offer custom meditations that you can gift to yourself or a loved one, which is a great thing to do during the holiday season.

00:22:07:00 - 00:22:16:12
Unknown
All the links are in the show notes as well. Now that's enough updates and let's get back into the episode.

00:22:16:14 - 00:22:41:10
Unknown
So thank you so much for explaining a bit about like, why the holidays are particularly hard when we're grieving. I wanted to know if there like any grief myths about the holidays. I think sometimes there can be these just myths that are in our mind that can make things harder or easier. I don't know, like what are some myths?

00:22:41:10 - 00:23:09:18
Unknown
What are things that can be helpful to debunk as we move into the holiday season? Yeah, that's a it's a good question. I think one of the things that is hard about this is that sometimes it maybe is just individual myths. I don't know how generalized they are, because what we'll hear sometimes is some people saying, I know that it's going to be so much harder if we we don't try to keep everything exactly the same like that.

00:23:09:18 - 00:23:30:07
Unknown
What we should be doing is trying to keep all the traditions, and everyone's going to be upset or devastated if we do anything differently, so we should do it exactly the same. And then of course, you have other people who are like, I'm skipping the whole holiday altogether. If I even try to engage in the holiday, it's just going to be awful.

00:23:30:09 - 00:23:51:00
Unknown
I'm checking out this year. Maybe I'll be back next year for the holiday. And so I do think sometimes those extremes, people are often feeling like I have to do one or the other. I have to either try to make it as close to what it's always been. As I can, or I need to do it completely differently.

00:23:51:02 - 00:24:13:22
Unknown
And the reality is that it varies for everyone. You know, some people skip the holiday or do something totally different. They're like, I went to a tropical island and pretended it wasn't happening. And it was glorious. And it was exactly what I needed. And other people are like, I went away and pretended it wasn't happening, and it was so much worse, and it was devastating and I shouldn't have done it.

00:24:13:22 - 00:24:34:14
Unknown
I should have tried to be with people, you know, there's no right or wrong, right? Like there's just like what? What we do and how we cope with it. And I will say that one thing to consider, if you are in that place of feeling like we have to keep all the traditions the same, we have to do it for the kids.

00:24:34:14 - 00:25:06:22
Unknown
Sometimes that's a big thing we hear, like we have to. To do it identically is sometimes that effort to maintain everything as it was just ends up causing a stark contrast or relief from the reality that, like, that person is missing and sometimes that feels even heavier and more pronounced when you're working so hard to act like that isn't happening.

00:25:07:00 - 00:25:25:11
Unknown
And act like that's not true. And sometimes it's really important to just be able to acknowledge some things are going to change and some things are going to stay the same, and some moments are going to be happy, and some moments are going to be so incredibly sad and hard. And we are going to get through it.

00:25:25:11 - 00:26:00:03
Unknown
And we can make thoughtful, conscious decisions about how we do that. But it doesn't have to mirror the way it's always been in order to still be a good, meaningful holiday, even with grief as as part of the holiday. And so I think having that flexibility is really important and not feeling like tradition is something that if we let it go or let it flex or change it, even for a year, that somehow it is going to disrupt and devastate the holiday for everyone.

00:26:00:03 - 00:26:29:16
Unknown
So I think that's that's the one, the big one that pops to mind for me. Yeah. I think that's so helpful. And like, even if you try to replicate the same holiday you've had, it is going to be different. I mean, with or without loss, every year is going to be different. So knowing that going into it at least can be like maybe we move through the same mold and template, but I have to know that it's going to feel a lot different.

00:26:29:16 - 00:26:54:18
Unknown
And when it does, like here's something I can do that helps. Like, I know my mother, we had a lot of recent loss with my parents and their parents, and my mom got like an ornament for the tree for each person that was lost that year. Just like a little way to be like, you know, we're doing the same things ish, and I want to honor the people who aren't here.

00:26:54:18 - 00:27:14:18
Unknown
And that felt meaningful to her. Absolutely. And I think just knowing that you can come up with their creative ideas and have conversations with the people who are going to be part of your holiday to just say, what might we want to do to acknowledge the people who aren't going to be here? And we can have a conversation.

00:27:14:18 - 00:27:42:00
Unknown
We can plan in advance to try to figure out what are some things that might meet everybody's needs. There is lots of wonderful and creative ways to do that. Yeah, I think you're kind of leaning into the to the next part that I'm really curious about is like, for someone listening who has experienced a recent loss, how do you recommend someone start preparing themselves for their grief during the holidays?

00:27:42:00 - 00:28:05:06
Unknown
And how can we communicate that with others, especially if, like both of us, have lost someone and what we might need may be different in that situation? Yeah. You know, I think the first thing to do is just to really get comfortable with the idea that, like the hard moments are going to come up like they are, there's going to be these hard times.

00:28:05:06 - 00:28:31:21
Unknown
And that doesn't mean that you're failing at the holidays. That means that you're just you're you're grieving through them. And oftentimes what can happen is when difficult feelings come up, we feel like we have to be like, oh, no, no, I have to push this away. Because I have to put on a strong face for everyone or try to use this opportunity to be really happy and joyful and, and instead, of course, just going, we can hold both.

00:28:31:21 - 00:29:00:05
Unknown
And so when these things come up, I'm just going to open myself to whatever is coming up for me, all of the emotions. And in thinking about my holidays, I'm going to sort of build that in. So we suggest to people all the time just little stuff like be thoughtful about driving yourself places. If you worry that you might get trapped because you got to ride with other people who aren't ready to leave.

00:29:00:05 - 00:29:22:04
Unknown
And you're just like, this is too much. I've I've come, I've had this space that works for me, but now I really need to go back and restore myself at home with some time on my own, with my grief. You know, having that there, talking to people about that. If you're nervous about committing to events, saying that to people up front, just saying, you know, this has been a really hard year.

00:29:22:04 - 00:29:50:06
Unknown
There's been so much loss. I'm feeling kind of hesitant about committing to things. My plan right now is I'm going to come and maybe stay for an hour, but I might have to leave even sooner than that. And I want to try to come, but we'll see how it goes to kind of just give yourself permission to go to things for a little while and leave skip things if you need to not feel that guilt.

00:29:50:08 - 00:30:10:02
Unknown
If you realize you committed to something and now you've changed your mind to feel comfortable having an honest conversation with someone and just saying, I really, I said yes because I really wanted to be able to do this, and unfortunately, I just have to take care of myself and my grief, and I don't have it in me right now.

00:30:10:04 - 00:30:35:16
Unknown
And hopefully knowing that the people around you who love you and care about you are not going to want you to overextend yourself or push yourself out of some sense of obligation. So if you can be honest, it's hard, especially if you're somebody who struggles with the idea of canceling on someone or not showing up for the whole thing and being full unhappy.

00:30:35:18 - 00:30:56:20
Unknown
But it's a good place to to practice and to just be honest about how you're feeling in advance and on the other side to give yourself permission to let go and have a great time. Sometimes we feel guilty like God. This is the first year that I'm going to go to this New Year's party without my husband. And like I, I can't believe I'm going.

00:30:56:20 - 00:31:20:01
Unknown
It feels wrong. I'm I'm supposed to be grieving, you know, with this misconception that what we do is we somehow, like, grieve 100% of the time and then don't we're always oscillating back and forth between the painful emotional emotions of grief and then just surviving and living and figuring out how to to thrive and grow in the world again.

00:31:20:03 - 00:31:55:06
Unknown
And those things are always going to be there together. And that means that we need to be able to give ourselves permission to get breaks, to enjoy the joy when it comes to find connection and release and community and all the things that can be part of the holiday season. And so I think giving yourself permission to find that and to not think that that's a betrayal to their memory, or that that means your forgetting or moving on or letting go, you know, that is our connection is in so much more than our pain.

00:31:55:06 - 00:32:38:14
Unknown
You know, there are all these other things that connect us. And so being able to recognize that we can we can enjoy the holidays, is another thing we always suggest to people. So the last thing I'll say, which is a little more abstract, but I think can be helpful, is just, you know, to really kind of ground in for yourself about what sort of the values of the holiday season that are important to you, and knowing that we can sometimes have the way we spend our holiday shift in a lot of ways and still stay connected to the values that are important to us.

00:32:38:16 - 00:33:07:09
Unknown
So if you feel like certain holidays are about family, or about gratitude or giving or service or, you know, whatever it is like thinking about what is so important about these days to you, not just in kind of the the what and the how, but like the why behind the holiday that makes it meaningful for you. And identifying that and thinking about that and thinking about it may be connected to your loved one, too.

00:33:07:09 - 00:33:30:21
Unknown
And like what made what did they love and value about the holiday that was important to them? And then saying, how am I? How am I going to do that this year? Like what feels right? It might be different the way we connect with friends or family, the way that we practice gratitude or service or whatever else might be part of that day for us.

00:33:30:23 - 00:33:56:14
Unknown
We might say, this year I'm doing it differently, and maybe I'm not, like hopping off to a tropical island. Maybe you are. And that's okay too. But maybe I'm doing something totally different, but that still feels connected with my values and the value of that holiday. And so I'm able to still feel that connection, even though maybe I really do change what the tradition looks like.

00:33:56:16 - 00:34:22:12
Unknown
Yes. I so appreciate so many parts of what you just said. And I think just like first naming how you talked about like allowing yourself to feel joy during a holiday when you're grieving. I think it's a really interesting parallel how, we need to lean into that wholeness, like the wholeness of the holidays can be really hard.

00:34:22:12 - 00:34:45:06
Unknown
And there's like, it doesn't have to be happy. And the most wonderful time of the year. And the flip side of like, grief can have a lot of joy and beauty in it, too. And you don't have to feel super sad all the time to show that you so deeply cared for that loved one, or continue that connection.

00:34:45:06 - 00:35:09:04
Unknown
I see my grandmother dealing with this a lot right now. It's like she can't allow herself to feel joyful because she feels like it's a betrayal, when in fact, like it's not any less love. And that person who's gone wants you to feel joy. So maybe if you do feel joy, it's like a way of connecting with them through that, through that gift they're holding space for you to have.

00:35:09:06 - 00:35:35:10
Unknown
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Just really mirroring, like the wholeness and the wide range of emotions that the holidays hold, that grief holds that this human experience holds. And when you're talking about preparing for the holidays, I kind of like to think a lot about, these like three pillars kind of help me move through everything. And as I was listening to you talk, I was like, yes, I feel like this is it.

00:35:35:10 - 00:36:06:08
Unknown
And like awareness of like, how are you feeling? Like what is actually here for you? What expectations do you have for yourself? What expectations do others have for you? What ones are projected and awareness of like, what are your values like? Really getting clear on those things before you move in to the holiday season and then really leaning to that acceptance, accepting the joy you might feel, accepting the pain you might feel.

00:36:06:08 - 00:36:31:00
Unknown
Accepting like walking into a party and having to walk out of the door like holding space for whatever is there to be there. Because the reality is, is like, whether you like it or not, it already is. Like whatever you think it should be doesn't matter. Because what is is what's here. So you can release a lot of suffering if you release the resistance around it.

00:36:31:00 - 00:36:55:14
Unknown
And just like accept what's there. And then really just like, I just feel like drenching yourself in compassion for like, whatever you're feeling. Like holding that wide range of experiences you might be feeling with so, so much compassion. I think of like steeping yourself in like a pot of compassion tea, like your little tea bag, just getting steeped in it.

00:36:55:16 - 00:37:16:08
Unknown
And I think compassion requires a lot of action. So coming up with like an action plan for yourself of like, okay, I'm going to communicate to this person who I know will be at this party that like, I'm I need to leave and I'm not going to be able to say goodbye to everyone, and I need you to just kind of, like, have my back on that.

00:37:16:08 - 00:37:36:13
Unknown
Or if I am going to go to this thing, here's what I need to do before. Here's what I need to do during and here's what I need to do after. To like, nourish and reset and tender myself to make it through this wave. And those are just some things I try to always apply to the holidays, period.

00:37:36:13 - 00:38:03:11
Unknown
Like, because it's just such a, well, mean time of year. Yeah. And just having tools like that can make all the difference. Now, I think that you're spot on and that compassion, you know, I love how Kristen Neff, who is a self-compassion researcher, she talks about the idea that we need to have tender self-compassion and fierce self-compassion and tender self-compassion.

00:38:03:12 - 00:38:37:06
Unknown
And she says it's that self kindness and mindfulness and our awareness of our kind of universal humanity that happens, and we need to just be gentle and allow ourselves to take it easy and to give ourselves permission to leave early and cancel and all those things. But she also talks about fierce self-compassion and saying, like, sometimes we need to give ourselves a little like kick in the butt to have boundaries or to get ourselves actually to push ourselves like maybe it is.

00:38:37:06 - 00:39:05:09
Unknown
But last year you really were in that tender self-compassion place and you were like, I am not going to do anything out of any sense of obligation or go anywhere. I'm just going to turn it home and not really, like, worked. But maybe you did feel a sense of loss that you kind of missed out on connecting with people and feeling a sense of family or community, and now you're in that kind of, where do I do middle ground space?

00:39:05:09 - 00:39:36:15
Unknown
And, and one of the things she says is sometimes the way that we practice versus self-compassion is by figuring out how to push ourselves to do something, even when it isn't easy, and that that can be its own kind of self-compassion. And I think that can be really helpful to remember in grief in general, but especially at the holidays, is often we think I need to feel motivated in order to do something like I need to like, feel that.

00:39:36:17 - 00:40:09:02
Unknown
And the reality is, there are many moments in life where we're not motivated to do things that are really important to us and that we really value and that we really want to do. And there's an important place that we can find, like that middle ground. I think sometimes at the holidays when we do tap into certain values or certain things, maybe that we did decide to tap out of last year, and we're on the fence about what we want to do this year to say, you know what?

00:40:09:02 - 00:40:38:13
Unknown
I might not feel motivated, and I can still decide to to try. I can still decide to like, push myself to show up. And maybe I bail and I leave and I say, never mind, but that we can find that place. And sometimes what happens is that that motion starts to kind of give us an energy that allows us to actually feel more engaged once we're doing it.

00:40:38:13 - 00:41:05:12
Unknown
It's like that analogy of a car. If you it breaks down and you have to push it off the road like that first inch is impossible. But once you get it moving, it starts rolling. And that can sometimes happen. And I think that can be an important piece at the holidays, too, to just think of those different types of compassion that we might show ourselves, that allows us to move in either direction.

00:41:05:12 - 00:41:30:23
Unknown
Like the let me just like cocoon and take care of myself and bail when I need to, and also let me connect with my values and figure out how to maybe give myself that little push if I need to. I think you're just so spot on with all of that. Because so much we often will resist something that feels uncomfortable.

00:41:30:23 - 00:41:57:00
Unknown
But really discomfort is just something that's something that's unfamiliar. So if like we and kind of that concept of like objects in motion stays, stay in motion if you like, look at Chinese medicine. It's all about where we're finding like blockages. And that causes so much, disease and illness in the body and energetically. And we also live in a society where we're so forced in the go, go, go, the do do do.

00:41:57:00 - 00:42:38:06
Unknown
It's like a weird balance game. And it can be hard to discern between, like, when do I need to push myself and when do I need to rest? And I think you just nailed it on the head right there with like, if you sit with your values first, if you bring your awareness to like what you value, what's really happening right now, then you are better able to discern, like right now, fear, self-compassion, looks like, you know, put it on my boots, walking out the door, walking into that space full of people and sometimes fear self-compassion looks like picking up the phone, setting a boundary, and getting under the blanket.

00:42:38:06 - 00:43:11:20
Unknown
And only you know what is truly right for you. But don't be afraid if things feel uncomfortable or unfamiliar. Discomfort isn't a bad thing. And it's okay to hold space for some of that during the holiday season too. Oh, it in. It's like an imperative, I think, in all of grief is to remember that grief is this process of learning to live in a world that is completely different than the world you've ever lived in.

00:43:11:20 - 00:43:44:06
Unknown
It's a world where this person is missing, where you're feeling things you're never felt, where you're doing things with feel with those feelings in a way that often brings up discomfort, right? We like, have this idea of if I feel these emotions like sadness and despair and overwhelm and all of these things, and I've never thought about or tried to feel those things in a space that otherwise feels like it's supposed to be about joy and happiness.

00:43:44:08 - 00:44:18:11
Unknown
Of course, we're going to feel discomfort. Like that is a really dissonant experience, and when we've never done it before, it is so challenging. It's so challenging to go. How do I hold so many feelings and so many experiences at once? And there is exactly as you said, there's there's no right or wrong, only you know what is going to feel best for you and when you need to, to be cocooned at home under the blanket and when maybe you need to go, okay, of course I'm feeling discomfort.

00:44:18:11 - 00:44:48:01
Unknown
I'm learning. Grief is learning. I'm learning to live in the world differently now, and sometimes it's going to feel uncomfortable. Yes, let's. So thank you so much for holding space to share how we can be with one of the hardest things during the fullest time of the year. So appreciate your time. And for those listening, how can people stay connected with you and your work?

00:44:48:01 - 00:45:09:00
Unknown
How can they connect with you for grief support? I know you just have so many incredible resources out there for people. Oh yeah. Absolutely. We our website is what's your grief.com? We have tons of information about grief in the holidays and getting through the holiday season, and very have it all linked in the show notes. Yeah, lots of information there.

00:45:09:02 - 00:45:40:05
Unknown
And we have a podcast also called What's Your Grief? We have a book also called What's Your Grief list to help you through any loss. And for people who are looking for a little more support than just those things, we also have a member community where people can join, and we have a forum and befriending grief sessions and grief cafes and community writing and, workshops and webinars and all sorts of things like that for people who are looking for more.

00:45:40:07 - 00:46:06:06
Unknown
And we really focus on the idea that for some people, connecting and talking, and that really helps in their grief. And for some people like doing things on their own and processing individually and learning and creating. And, you know, all of those things are what's helpful for grief. So it's a space that's really for all types of grievers to be able to find what works and tap in to their own kind of grief expression.

00:46:06:08 - 00:46:26:02
Unknown
Thank you so much for the work that you do and holding this space for so many people I know. It's so needed and I so appreciate you and I know so many listeners do too. Yeah. I appreciate you so much kind of bringing this to the surface during the holiday season. It doesn't get talked about enough. And I know people sometimes feel a lot of confusion and shame.

00:46:26:02 - 00:46:34:09
Unknown
So I appreciate you so much raising this.

00:46:34:11 - 00:46:51:18
Unknown
Thank you for taking time to listen to the wise one inside of you today. Please rate, review and subscribe to this podcast to help it grow. Until the next time, let's keep taking it one breath at a time.